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tonight, tiger back on top. number one in the world just two years after hitting rock bottom. >> feels good right now. >> is this his second great act? also, jerry sandusky's jailhouse interview. >> horseplay, maybe snapping towels or something like that. >> a prime time exclusive with the controversial film maker who claims there's been a rush to judgment in the case. i'll go one-on-one with him. and guns in america. i'll talk to the mother of a 13 month old baby gunned down in his stroller. also, as the supreme court takes on same sex marriage, i talk to former new jersey governor jim mcgreevy.

would things have been different for him today? this is "piers morgan live." we'll get to jerry sandusky's interview from behind bars in just a moment. but we begin with the one and only tiger woods. he had an extraordinary return to his winning ways at the arnold palmer invitational in florida today, going from worst to first in just two years. okay. he failed to sink this 74 foot par attempt but just about parred and birdied everything else in a dazzling round and it took him back to number one. joining me now is "usa today" columnist christine brennan, on the phone zach johnson, nine-time pga tour champion who finished 34th at the arnold palmer invitational. welcome to you both. christine, let me start with you. a stunning come back from tiger

woods. no other way to put it. he's world number one again and after the scandal he went to number 58 in the world, lost most of his sponsors, he lost most of the public support, and here he is back on top. what do you make of it? >> i think it's a great comeback. he's 37 years old with a body that skews older because of the injuries he's had. so it really is remarkable from the fall from grace. of course, all self-induced. the personal troubles back around thanksgiving of 2009 to this moment. many of us didn't think he would get there. now of course, the masters is looming just two weeks away. he is the favorite. he almost has to win the masters in terms of really reestablishing himself as the man. he's number one but as he always told us, those four majors are the most important things to him. he wants that masters more than anything in two weeks. >> listen to what tiger said today, particularly prophetic given it was text messaging that got him into trouble in the first place. listen to what he said today.

>> it feels good right now. i was kind of scrolling through my phone and all the people who have supported me and all the texts saying thank you, trying to text back thank you as fast as i possibly can. but it's been incredible to have all the support and all the hard work has paid off to get me to this point, and it feels good to have won this event. >> let me go to you, zach, if i may. you have beaten tiger, you have been beaten by tiger. some are saying he's now playing better than he was before. do you go along with that? >> i don't know. there was a stretch there where he was truly unbeatable. there was a period of time where it was almost as if before he teed it off, he had already beaten, you know, a pretty good percentage of the field. i don't know if he's at that point yet.

but you know, his form is rounding into shape like that. i just think, you know, with what's gone on over the last few years, he's really had some injuries and obviously he's retooled and is working with a new coach, somewhat of a new coach. now he's starting to get back there. every time he switches coaches, it just takes a little bit of time. i think he's getting used to that golf swing, starting to get used to playing a lot more because he's healthy and obviously, you have to putt well. clearly that's what he's doing right now. >> christine, just one slight thing tonight, nike put out this poster embracing his great triumph today. could we see it here. we have a copy of this. it basically says winning overcomes everything was the sort of theme of this thing. is that an advised position for nike, do you think, to say that look, in the end, winning is all that counts, it supersedes everything, even the kind of marital disharmony that he went through?

>> that is so typical of nike, piers. this is exactly what they do, the in-your-face advertising, the thing that no one else would do, nike does. now, how does america react to that? my reaction was the same as what you just said, which is you've got to be kidding me. after all of this, it's almost like making fun of it or saying hey, who cares about that. tiger woods of course torched his family life. he cheated repeatedly on his wife, his kids, you know. to kind of assume that just the brush of a hand now, that is nike to a tee, vintage nike. i'm not so sure that sells so well to the american public at large. >> what sells better, i think, is probably his relationship with lindsay vonn and some are saying he's got a woman back in his life and he's playing great golf again. there may be a link here. you think that a more relaxed, happy tiger has been the answer to his problems? >> yeah, that's possible. i covered lindsay vonn for a long time.

i covered tiger for a long time. lindsay vonn may be the tougher, more courageous athlete in terms of barreling down the mountain back in 2006, people might remember she crashed in an olympic race at the 2006 games, she was airlifted off the mountain. two days later she comes back and finishes eighth in another olympic race. that is one tough cookie. so you know, having an equal, having a peer, having someone who can understand what it's like to come back from injury, that's what lindsay vonn of course is doing right now with a very severe knee injury as she's trying to get back for the 2014 soche olympics. i would assume there's a camaraderie there in terms of just being able to discuss life at the top in your sport. obviously, as tiger says, it makes him very happy. lindsay's happy so i guess everybody's happy. >> he paid his price. he's perfectly entitled to be happy. great to see him back at number one. final question for you, zach. i would imagine tiger woods right now is the last name you want to draw out of the hat at the masters.

>> well, you know, i don't know if there is any name i want to draw out of a hat there. it's a smaller field, an elite field, it's a field where everybody tries to rise up. you know, it doesn't really matter, you know, who's coming down the stretch. when it comes to augusta national and the masters tournament, we're all jonesing to win, all jonesing to play well. tiger has the experience. he certainly has more green jackets, you know, than all of us in the field. he's got to be tough to beat. given that, you know, there's a lot of depth and parity in our sport right now. i know what we've seen the last -- well, since january, pretty remarkable what tiger's doing. however, [ inaudible ] him being one of those examples and it wouldn't surprise me if someone else that we're not even familiar with rises up and wins. certainly having tiger play well doesn't hurt. >> well, i'm going to have a

large wager on tiger woods to win the masters. i think he's in an unstoppable frame of mind. he's back at number one. he's found love again. nothing can stop him. zach, christine, thank you both very much. >> thank you, piers. i want to turn to the other big story of the day. jerry sandusky speaking out from behind bars for the first time since going to prison for child sex abuse while at penn state. a new documentary, sandusky talks about the late visionary coach joe paterno and claims key witnesses in the case changed their stories. joining me now in his first prime time interview, documentary maker, john siegler. welcome to you. what is the purpose of the film that you are making? >> first of all, there is already a film made called "the framing of joe paterno part one." this sandusky interview may be part of a larger film. it's an honor to be with you. you actually inspired part of my work here because on the day of jerry sandusky's verdict when you were anchoring here on cnn, you declared that joe paterno was clearly part of a coverup. i thought that was ridiculous because there was no evidence

for that then. there's no evidence for that now. it doesn't even make any sense. the media rushed to judgment against joe paterno here and against penn state, and i was trying to use jerry sandusky's knowledge to be able to fill in the blanks, the many blanks that we have in the story to try to put together the pieces of this puzzle, which have not yet been fit together. >> do you think jerry sandusky is a pedophile? >> yeah, i do. >> so why would you want to give him oxygen of being able to talk about his victim? >> wait a minute. >> that's what you're doing. >> no, i'm not. >> you are. >> no, i'm not. oxygen? do you know where he's living? he's living in a super max prison. >> he's living where he belongs. he's a convicted pedophile. >> here's what i'm trying to do. i'm trying to get to the truth of this matter. joe paterno's dying wish was just find out what the truth was. no one has done that for joe paterno. the only way to do that is to talk to the central figure in this story.

that's jerry sandusky. and when there is corroborating evidence, which there is for much of what jerry says with regard to penn state and joe paterno's lack of culpability, i will use that to try to make the case it was a rush to judgment. >> let's look at this apparent evidence. >> you don't remember snapping towels yourself, do you? >> i'm not actually sure. i would have been more inclined to do slap boxing or something like that. i'm not sure. he always, no matter what we did, he'd always get the last lick in, the last smack. and then i would chase him and i ran him into a wall in the shower area, where we were showering in and that was it. i never saw mike mcqueary. i don't know whether the young man saw him. i don't know.

>> you're sure you never saw mike mcqueary? >> i am sure. >> this is a man who refused to take the stand in his case, but to you, he's now coming out in this flippant, semi-jocular manner talking about abusing young boys in a shower, regardless whether he raped them or not, he's been convicted. whether you believe him or not -- >> he was acquitted of the rape charge in that particular case. >> he doesn't dispute running around a shower -- >> i agree. >> -- horse playing with a naked boy. >> i understand. that's outrageous to a lot of people. understandably so. i agree with that. in fact, i think one of the more amazing things here, jerry sandusky admits to me in my interview with him which is 3 1/2 hours to activity that is actually criminal that i'm not sure he understands is criminal. but the reason why that clip is important is because it's the central issue in the joe paterno/penn state part of the story. >> how does that have anything to do with joe paterno? >> here's how. i'm holding in my hand the corroborating evidence from the alleged victim in that case,

victim number two, whose identity i now know. this is an interview he gave to an fbi trained investigator, former police officer on the day joe paterno was fired, saying nothing happened that night, mike mcqueary is lying and investigators tried to get him to lie to say what they wanted to hear him say. that is powerful. this is proactively coming from a person who is a 24-year-old married sergeant in the marine corps at that time, proactively coming out and saying wait a minute, now i'm not saying nothing happened in the shower. what i'm saying is had we known that on november 9th, 2011, people would have said whoa, wait a minute, hold on, this is a rush to judgment here. >> nine different -- >> no, no, not against jerry sandusky, piers. this is not that difficult to understand. >> no need to be rude. you are being very -- >> you've had a year and a half to make your case. >> not my case. >> you are claiming jerry is part of a coverup. >> jerry sandusky -- >> you just named joe paterno

saying he was part of a cover-up. did you not say that? >> let's take a break. see if you can calm down. we'll try again after the break. [ male announcer] surprise -- you're having triplets. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.

i'm back now to talk more about jerry sandusky. so let me just get this straight. you don't dispute that jerry sandusky abused boys in the shower, and this boy in particular in the shower, right? >> jerry sandusky as i said in the previous segment had his day in court. joe paterno never did. that's always been my focus. i believed from the beginning -- >> answer my question. answer my question. you don't dispute that he abused boys in the shower. >> the evidence is there, he was convicted. i have no problem with that. >> do you know why joe paterno was fired? >> he was allegedly fired for not protecting the very boy whose interview i'm holding in my hand, the day he got fired that there was nothing -- no reason to protect him. >> let me remind you, the board found that while paterno -- >> you are going to quote the penn state board of trustees? >> an employee claimed sandusky abused a young boy in the shower, paterno should have done more. it was a failure of leadership by coach paterno. in other words, joe paterno did know that sandusky was abusing boys in the shower. >> no, he did not. >> clearly he did. that's why he was fired.

>> you're believing the penn state board of trustees who wet their pants in the face of this media onslaught rush to judgment. >> i know you're big on media con conspiracies and you tried to drag me into this. jerry sandusky is one of the worst pedophiles i have seen in a long time. joe paterno knew he was doing stuff. >> how do you know that? >> because he reported it to the board. we know this. >> you know nothing about this case. i know you won "celebrity apprentice" so you must be very smart. >> why are you being so offensive? is it because you had a whole day on the back foot on this? >> on the back foot? you seem to think this is a commercial endeavor. this is not a commercial endeavor. >> how much money you making from it? >> zero. i couldn't care less about that. >> you don't make any money? >> this is -- >> did you make any money from nbc? >> no. absolutely. in fact, we didn't even pursue trying to make money. >> you didn't make a single penny? >> not a single penny. >> your motivation seems to be

to clear joe paterno, right? >> i'm trying to figure out what the truth of the matter is. >> please stop being such an idiot. okay? >> i want to find out the truth. >> being offensive for the sake of it. let me read a statement from the paterno family. >> you believe scott paterno. >> can i read a family statement, on behalf of the man you say you are trying to clear his name. right? >> i'm trying to find the truth. >> let me read a statement. the paterno family would prefer to remain silent on this matter, but they feel it's important to make it clear they had no role in retaining or releasing this recording. moreover, they believe any attempt to use this recording as a defense of joe paterno is misguided and inappropriate. the words of his family. they don't want you doing this. >> so on the record, then -- >> nobody wants you doing this. >> -- you believe scott paterno is credible and therefore you must not believe in the cover-up. >> you are now attacking paterno's family while -- >> you apparently believe -- >> is that what you're doing? you are now attacking his family? >> no. you are saying scott paterno is credible so i'm saying -- you said scott paterno -- you

believe in a cover-up. >> on behalf of the paterno family. >> you believe in a cover-up. >> the only cover-up was by jerry sandusky and joe paterno. >> there is no evidence -- >> that's why he got fired. joe paterno got fired. of course he knew. sandusky was doing things he shouldn't be doing. we may not learn the whole scale of it but he knew damn well sandusky was having naked child -- >> how do you know that? that's an incredible charge. >> that'why he got fired. >> you're saying because he got fired, does that inherently mean he's guilty? >> why are you so keen to make these victims go through more pain? >> that's exactly my motivation. >> it's the only thing that is happening as a result. >> really. >> calling the victims liars. trying to smear their name. trying to minimize -- >> i'm not calling anyone a liar. >> trying to minimize what he did. >> i'm not calling -- in fact, i'm calling the victims truth tellers. victim two is telling the truth here and is still telling the truth. i believe victim two was

prably abused. he's not changing his story. he's changing his interpretation of events. stop lying about me. i never said the victims are lying. that would be ridiculous. my only agenda here is to find out what happened. you guys in the media didn't do a good job of that. you bought into a narrative that makes no sense and for which there's no proof. >> a courtroom convicted sandusky of pedophilia and the board of penn state fired paterno which by any definition joe paterno failed those boys. he failed the boys in his charge. >> no, he did not. >> yes, he did. >> he did exactly the right thing. if he had done any more he would have been criticized for that. and everything -- >> if he had done any more to stop sandusky over years of abusing boys? >> he didn't know that was happening. piers, there's no evidence of that. there's no conspiracy here. there is everyone acting in their own self-interest, throwing an old man who died soon after this happened under the bus to protect themselves, including the penn state board of trustees and by the way,

everything we thought we knew on november 9, 2011 when the board made that decision is false. mike mcqueary never said he saw a rape. he never told joe paterno about a rape and i believe that a rape that night probably never occurred. >> what do you think did occur then? >> i believe that jerry sandusky and the victim say almost exactly the same thing occurred. penn state took action and made sure his employer which by the way was no longer penn state, his employer knew about it and they knew who the boy was. >> in between the shrieking just to clarify, you don't believe sandusky abused the boy? >> how many times do we need to go through this? i couldn't care less about that. he had his day in court. is this that difficult a concept for you? you won celebrity apprentice. you're a smart guy. i would think you can understand the difference between defending joe paterno's legacy. >> nobody wants to defend his legacy. his own family don't want you to do this. joe paterno's family don't want

you doing this. >> scott paterno, you're right, does not want me doing this. i have a lot to say about scott paterno. >> give him a chance to carry on tormenting these poor kids with his jocular horrible little -- >> you're excited to have me on to play the clips. you're the one. i don't have the ability to go to a huge broadcast on cnn -- >> you made a movie out of this. >> you decided let's play jerry sandusky. you're the one tormenting these kids allegedly which i don't believe it happening. we're trying to get to the truth. you're the one tormenting them by your own definition. will you please admit there is no cover-up here? what you said is wrong. >> of course there was cover-up. it's why joe paterno got fired. >> that was not even the allegation. >> joe paterno knew sandusky was behaving utterly inappropriately towards these young boys over a long period of time. >> if that was true -- >> it was a disgraceful dereliction of joe paterno's duties. >> can you explain why he testified the way he did or allowed mike mcqueary to

testify? >> let me bring in somebody else who knows all about this. cnn correspondent sarah gannon who won a pulitzer prize for covering this story. you heard this interview i've been trying to conduct here. what is your take on what my guest has been saying? >> you know, piers, here's the deal. i sat through that trial every single day. i listened to all those men, including mike mcqueary, testify, and at the end of the day, the jury believed them. every single one of them, including mike mcqueary. he believed he saw something inappropriate in that shower. they convicted him -- >> she won a pulitzer prize. let her finish. >> she got a pulitzer prize for repeating -- >> let her finish what she wants to say. [ speaking simultaneously ] >> sarah, continue. i'm sorry. >> i think that the only thing we should be focusing on at this

point is helping those victims, helping all victims of sexual abuse and helping society understand how we can learn from this tragedy, how we can move forward, how we can protect the next group of kids and the next and protect people, protect our children from people like jerry sandusky. i think that what he's talking about right now, what his agenda is, has absolutely nothing to do with that. >> what about your agenda? why don't we explain how she got her pulitzer prize. she was the mouthpiece -- >> you know what, i don't want to hear any more from you. sarah, congratulations again on your stunning reporting that won the pulitzer prize. to you, mr. siegler, i would take the paterno family's advice and just disappear. that would be great. coming up, guns in america. the shocking story of a mother whose 13 month old son was shot to death in his stroller last week.

you've heard much heated debate on this show about the cult of gun violence in america. this is a story that is truly shocking. a 13 month old baby shot to death in his stroller in broad daylight. two teenagers now facing murder charges tonight and the baby's grieving mother, sherri west,

joins me now. sherri, first of all, i'm so terribly sorry for what has happened to you. it's a story that shocked america, shocked the world and when i first heard about it, seemed almost unbelievable. two young boys who have been charged with this offense and we have to say, wait for them to be tried, but that anyone could do this to a 13 month old baby. tell me what happened to you last week. >> i was walking home from the post office from mailing a letter and i was five minutes from my home. i was approached by a young man and some other boy that was hiding behind him, and he yelled at me give me your money. and i proceeded to tell him that i don't have any, and he shot --

pulled out a gun and shot at the ground, and i didn't see any shells so i thought the gun was a cap gun or beebee gun, i thought he was using a toy gun to scare me. then he shot at my head and the bullet grazed my ear and the side of my head, and then he shot me in the leg, and i still thought that it was a fake gun. and you know, neighbors had beebee guns and it stung. i injured my leg moving furniture days before and i was on pain medicine, so i didn't feel it but i felt stinging, and then it got numb and i didn't realize, you know, that it was real. it didn't look like a real gun. and apparently he kept asking me and i kept telling him i don't

have any, and he shot my baby in the face. and then i knew it was a real gun. and i screamed and i was scared to scream because i thought he was going to shoot me in the head and not miss that time. and then when i kept screaming for someone to call the police and the emt, he shoved me and grabbed me and then he ran. and then i wasn't sure if he was gone, but i quickly limping wheeled my baby into a yard next to me, into the gate, and i took him out of the harness and i laid him down on the ground, and

i proceeded cpr. and i saw his lungs inflate but there was no pulse, no pulse, and i kept proceeding with cpr and i still couldn't get a pulse. and finally the police arrived and a policeman took over clearing the airway and continuing cpr. and they couldn't get a pulse, but the emts arrived and they took my baby in the ambulance to work on him. and they wouldn't let me see him and they just kept working on him, and nobody knew if he was alive or dead. and i limped the whole way over to the ambulance where they placed him and the detectives and the police asked me why i was limping, and we weren't sure. i looked at my knee and there

was nothing wrong, and then they said pull your pant leg all the way up, and i was shot in the leg, in the thigh. and didn't realize it. so they had to call another ambulance to take me to the hospital. >> it's just beyond any kind of imagination. what does it say about america that two young -- >> i'm sorry? >> what does it say about this country that two young boys could even consider perpetrating such a crime? >> you know, it's a shame that our children grow up around children like this and that children can actually grow up and do things like this. i mean, people have to worry about children now, not just adult assailants. it could happen to anybody. >> sherry, you tragically lost another son who was just 17 --

>> yes, i did. >> he was a teenaged boy who was stabbed to death five years ago. no mother should ever have to go through this. >> he was 18. >> 18. he was stabbed to death. my heart goes out to you that you've had to go through this all over again. in terms of the investigation, we know that these two boys have been charged. one is 17, we believe, one is 15. do you have any doubt that the two that have been charged are the ones that committed this crime? >> i have no doubts that the shooter, they have in custody. i've seen his photo on another reporter's cell phone of the men that they have in custody and it's definitely him. they are being charged with felony murder and i just -- i

just hope, you know, that the shooter dies. i had to watch my baby die and i want him to die. a life for a life. and the young one, he was an accessory, an accomplice. i hope that he gets a juvenile correctional facility to age 21 and a consecutive life sentence in state prison. >> you chose to cremate your little baby, antonio. you had a private memorial service. how would you like to remember his short life? >> alive, walking around, waking me up. he didn't even get to say his first words. i'll never hear his first words.

>> sherry, i'm so sorry again for this appalling thing that's happened to you and to your family. i wish i could say something to make it better but i can't think of anything. it's one of the most appalling crimes i have heard of since i have been here in america, and my heart just goes out to you. thank you so much for joining me. >> thank you. we'll be back after this short break. license and registration please. what's this? uhh, it's my geico insurance id card, sir. it's digital, uh, pretty cool right? maybe. you know why i pulled you over today? because i'm a pig driving a convertible?

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at a point in every person's life, one has to look deeply into the mirror of one's soul and decide one's unique truth, not as we may want to see it or hope to see it, but as it is. and so my truth that is i am a gay american. >> the shocking moment that cut

short jim mcgreevey's term as governor of new jersey, announcing he was gay with his wife at his side. the scandal ended his political career but launched a life he said is much more fulfilling. he's the subject of a new documentary and joining me is the film maker and former new jersey governor jim mcgreevey. thank you for joining me. we had quite a show tonight, starting with the redemption of tiger woods. we moved into a weird attempt at redeeming people who i don't think deserve redemption. then we just had an extremely heartwarming, desperate, painful interview with this poor mother and i can't think of a single story outside of sandy hook that has resonated so powerfully. what do you make of that? start with that. when you hear that two young american boys have been charged with murder, one of whom is alleged to have gone off and shot that woman's baby in the head in a stroller, what is going wrong that can allow that mentality? >> i think it's a loss of

values, and i see it with the women that i work with. they grow up in some of the hardest, grittiest places -- >> you work in a lot of female prisons. >> exactly. all around them was gun violence, people buying dope, copping dope, running dope, shootings. it is a complete almost abject betrayal of the notion of the sacredness of life. and so the women grow up seeing that all around them and not surprisingly, replicate that behavior. i think that's what's happening across not all of america, but in certain parts that our children remarkably mimic what they see, what they witness, and what's taught to them. >> but to me, it's getting worse. i don't know what you think about this. but it seems like an escalation in the desensitiing of these kids. adam lanza at sandy hook, to be able to walk into a classroom of

first graders and just annihilate them. this kid has been charged with this offense, to walk up to a baby in a stroller and just shoot a bullet in his head. it seems to me a sort of dehumanizing process is going on here that removes any sense of normal behavior. >> i thought you were taking it to the place of redemption because you were starting with tiger woods. i thought you would ask jim if you thought these people deserved redemption. >> i will come to that. i'm not really i suppose -- >> she will take over your show if you let her. >> i will and i will tell you my husband is dutch and he watches you every night. he says this is sick, this country is sick and it's a disease and it's sad that -- it's great that you can say it but if you get a class, i have a first grader, if you line up their class of 20 kids and they get what happened in sandy hook and that doesn't change this country, then you haveto realize there's something really sick and disgusting about this country. you're not allowed to say that in america. in america you used to say usa,

chant this was the greatest country on earth and that's all you're allowed to say. >> you can salute america as a great country and americans as great people. but take a step back. talk about what the nra has been doing, robocalling people in newtown trying to bolster support and get their money. the nra is funded primarily from gun money and gun sales have exploded since sandy hook, particularly of the very ar-15 assault rifle that adam lanza used. that's where i agree it's a sick reaction. this is not a normal civilized country's reaction, let alone the world's great superpower. it makes me so angry to hear that poor woman who has just gone out for a walk with her baby and had her baby blown to pieces. >> as a society, is the reaction purely at a defensive posture and fear and probably hate, which causes us to go out and buy assault weapons because of the prospect of violence, or is the society say to itself we

need to do a better job of educating, restricting availability of gun usage and because whether it's the nra and because also, piers, frankly, our inability to grapple with the challenges that so many of our children face. one of the women that was focused on in the documentary was herself victim of repeated sexual violence and rape at the age of 12. so how that experience desensitized her to violence -- >> it has to. it has to. let's just turn to a cheerier note because it's been a pretty full-on show tonight. you've had an extraordinary redemption. the documentary highlights this. you went from this abyss in your life, i suppose it must have felt like at the time, everyone remembers and followed, to a much -- >> but it was a self-created abyss. it was also a blessing, that abyss. >> would you have gone through that abyss today?

in other words, do you think given the climate about gay marriage and gay rights, tomorrow we have the supreme court making this big judgment and the way this is moving in america so fast now in favor of gay rights and gay people getting the same rights as everybody else, would you have gone through the same kind of abyss? >> i think the attitude towards gay rights has changed so dramatically. as dr. king said, the arc of liberty moves inextricably towards greater awareness. that's been a blessing. for me it was more than my sexual orientation. it was an addiction to self, to politics, to ego, and it was a great blessing ironically my resignation because it allowed me to correct my moral compass towards what i perceived to be a more godly with a small "g" path. that is hopefully service to the women whose lives i share. >> tiger woods is back at number

one today. do you look at him and think redemption, i've been there, know what it's like? >> i try, piers, at this point in my life, not to be in judgment of any person except myself and to try to do good as i see it all to be done. >> what about the guys who shot the little baby? do they deserve redemption? >> they also deserve punishment and they deserve -- but in addition punishment, i don't know of their circumstances and i don't know -- understand their background, but i see in america, particularly in urban america, this wanton, almost indiscriminate violence and i have dealt with young women and men who seemingly don't even appreciate that the acts of violence have permanent consequences and it's only after prolonged sessions that they begin to break, emotionally break down and understand the enormity of their action. so there's a disconnect between

what we would call awareness and the action. >> jim, i could talk to you for a lot longer but sadly we have run out of time. >> i want to wish you and all your viewers [ inaudible ]. >> "fall to grace" premieres march 28th on hbo. best of luck with it. it's very powerful. everyone goes through rough times in their life. you're a great example of how to get yourself back on your feet. beautifully made. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you both. when we come back, i talk to tavis smiley about guns in america. [ rosa ] i'm rosa and i quit smoking with chantix.

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bob will retire when he's 153,

which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage. luckily, he found someone who gave him a fresh perspective on his portfolio. and with some planning and effort, hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age. it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. i want to bring you to matters what to say about guns and young people. pbs prime time special education under arrest. >> locking an 11-year-old up for any length of time doesn't make sense. he certainly knows how to cook crack cocaine, how to make methamphetamine, how to an assault weapon. it's irrespective of whether a child is in a jail cell or whether a child is in a classroom.

>> if you just wait one second, i want to update you with a campaign i've been running. it's an unofficial poll. i asked all 100 sentences following harry reid's absurd vote but do they agree with an assault weapons ban. 30 support, 40 posed. those that added their names to the oppose list are senator portman. and in the no-position, we have senators kirk and mcconnell. so we'll keep on them. that leaves about 20 senators who still refuse to say either way will they support the assault weapons ban in this country which is quite extraordinary after we ask a schism question. tabias, let me ask you, what do you do about these two kids in georgia who have murdered a bay bif in a stroller?

>> i've been watching most of your show and if there are two things to your show, one of them are we are failing our children as a country. there is these days a school to prison pipeline that is growing exponentially. we now have a highway into prison for our kids, but not even a sidewalk out. the baby in the stroller was failed. the kids who allegedly killed that baby were failed. the young boys in the sandusky case that you talked about tonight were failed. many of those young women, former governor mcgreevey and ms. pelosi was with, at some point in their lives they have failed. as a society, we have failed as a young people. the reason we're doing this special called education under arrest, that's exactly what's happening. there's a zero tolerance policy that we put in place after columbine was well-intentioned.

the stuff that i used to get sent to the principle's office now lands you in front of a judge, like judge edwards with a criminal record. and that's no way for a society who says it cares about the way its children behave. the second thing of your show tonight is washington is bought and bossed by big munl. i could not agree with you more, piers. i've been so heartened by your aggressive issue on the assault weapons ban. these politicians have failed us. democrat and republican, they are spineless. harry reid was wrong to not bring this up for a vote. my grand dad put it this way. there's some fights ain't worth fighting even if you win. but there's other fights you have to fight even if you lose. this is a fight we should have fought. and if nominees to the federal bench deserve an up or down vote, america's children deserve an up or down vote. this is beyond tragic. it's a moral disgrace. >> thomas that is the best, most

powerful, most eloquent answer to one question i've probably had on this show. i'm coming out next week. why don't we get together and have a longer conversation about this. it is incredibly important. your show, education under arrest, airs tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. on pbs. and it's well-worth watching. thomas, thank you, as always. >> thank you, piers. >> and we'll be right back. i had enough of feeling embarrassed about my skin.

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